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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thought and do we have anyone willing to tackle this?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Carrie Tellefson <carrie@sound-gov.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 11, 2025 1:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Maureen Pfaff <maureen@olypentitle.com>; Jp Kissling <jpkissling@fitico.com>; Michelle Taylor <mjtaylor@firstam.com>; Jim Blair <jblair4@figtitle.com>; George Peters <execdirector@washingtonlandtitle.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sam Miller <sam@sound-gov.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> FW: SB 5111 DOR Feedback<br>
<b>Importance:</b> High<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi All – Senator Chapman just texted me to let me know he is sending an email from the DOR to him. He is asking for our advice on how to respond.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">There is a lot in here that I don’t understand. I need your help wading through it and offering a solution. DOR proposes to change the bill so the focus is only on removing sales tax on the
recording fees, not B&O. Is that workable?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I would like help from you understanding their comment about the bifurcation of escrow agent services. Do we need to fix that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Please let me know your thoughts. I would like to get back to him this weekend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Carrie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Carrie Tellefson, JD, President<br>
Sound Government Solutions<br>
253-576-9908 (cell)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><img width="400" height="40" style="width:4.1666in;height:.4166in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01DB6429.BF165470" alt="cid2387524142*81be06f7-0e2f-4cbb-ba84-52a5c8d90d15"></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I understand that everyone has their own way of working. I’m sending this email at a time that suits my schedule, but there’s no expectation for you to read, reply or act
on it outside your regular work hours.</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Chapman, Sen. Mike <<a href="mailto:Mike.Chapman@leg.wa.gov">Mike.Chapman@leg.wa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, January 11, 2025 at 12:57</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Carrie Tellefson <<a href="mailto:carrie@sound-gov.com">carrie@sound-gov.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Fw: SB 5111 DOR Feedback<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Carrie, hopefully this makes sense to you and you can advise me on how I should reply:)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thx!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Armstrong, Kate (DOR) <<a href="mailto:KateA@DOR.WA.GOV">KateA@DOR.WA.GOV</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 10, 2025 3:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chapman, Sen. Mike <<a href="mailto:Mike.Chapman@leg.wa.gov">Mike.Chapman@leg.wa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Arndt, Meagan <<a href="mailto:Meagan.Arndt@leg.wa.gov">Meagan.Arndt@leg.wa.gov</a>>; Ewing, Steve (DOR) <<a href="mailto:SteveE2@DOR.WA.GOV">SteveE2@DOR.WA.GOV</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> SB 5111 DOR Feedback <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#FFEB9C"><span style="color:#9C6500">CAUTION:</span><span style="color:black">External email.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Senator Chapman,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope you are doing well! I am contacting you today regarding
<a href="https://url.avanan.click/v2/r01/___https:/app.leg.wa.gov/BillSummary/?BillNumber=5111&Year=2025&Initiative=false___.YXAzOmZpZGVsaXR5dGl0bGVjbzphOm86NTJjOWZmOGMzNjU1YTg3NDFjYWQ1YzQ2N2Q4MmE4YTk6NzphZTgxOjY4MWZiM2VlYjhhNGVhYjhlNDljYjcyZDg5NjE5OTUyNDg3MzIzMTU0MjhlNDU4NDk5Zjc1MmZmYmI3N2M3ZGQ6aDpUOkY" title="Protected by Avanan: https://app.leg.wa.gov/BillSummary/?BillNumber=5111&Year=2025&Initiative=false">
<span style="color:#467886">SB 5111</span></a> – <i>Concerning the excise tax treatment of amounts received by title and escrow businesses from clients for remittance to a county filing office for the purpose of recording documents.</i>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>What this proposal does</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This proposal swaps escrow services with escrow agent services that do not include amounts remitted to a county filing office for the purpose of recording documents in the list of business activities whose charges for their services are
considered sales at retail. This proposal also exempts document and recording fees filed with the county filing office by escrow agent services from B&O tax.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Possible unintended consequences</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We understand this proposal to result in a bifurcation of escrow agent service taxation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l5 level1 lfo3">One group will be businesses that provide escrow agent services which do not include separately stated document and recording fees as part of their charges.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l5 level2 lfo3">The escrow agent services will be subject to retailing B&O and must charge retail sales tax on their services.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l5 level1 lfo3">The other group will be all other businesses that provide escrow agent services including ones that separately state document and recording fees as part of their escrow agent service charges.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l5 level2 lfo3">The escrow agent services will be subject to service and other B&O tax.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is our understanding because the section being amended in this proposal defines the businesses engaging in sales at retail and not the charges that are subject to retailing B&O tax.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Section 2(3) “The term "sale at retail" or "retail sale" includes the sale of or charge made for personal, business, or professional services …
<b><i>received by persons engaging in the following business activities</i></b>:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">“(g) Escrow agent services … that do not include amounts remitted to a county filing office for the purpose of recording documents, if separately identified on a settlement statement, HUD-1, or closing disclosure”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(emphasis added). Thus, any charge for services by a business engaged in the escrow agent services as defined in Section 2(3)(g) would be subject to retailing B&O tax.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We assume that creating two different B&O tax treatments on similar transactions is likely not the intent. Instead, we assume the intent is to exempt the document and recording fees collected and remitted to the county filing office by
escrow agent as a service to their customer from B&O tax and retail sales and use tax.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Policy concern</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The B&O tax is, by design, broadly applied to gross income at a low rate. A feature of the B&O tax is that it does not allow deductions for a cost of doing business. Instead, the B&O tax is pyramiding in nature, meaning the gross income
is taxable at each stage of a process regardless of whether tax was due at an earlier stage. Retail sales and use tax applies when a sale is made to an end-consumer who does not intend to resell the good/services purchased.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Government fees-for-service are generally taxable when they are included in a larger retail transaction to a customer/client such as the sale of escrow services. In the case of abstract, title insurance, or escrow services, the customer/client
is purchasing a whole host of services which includes document recording. Document and recording fees are incidental to the larger retail sale of services and merely a cost of doing business for the industry.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As a note, the department generally has no concerns with the creation of a retail sales and use tax exemption as these do not undermine the fundamental feature of a B&O tax that it does not allow deductions for the cost of doing business.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Suggested alternative approach</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If amenable to limiting this proposal to the retail sales and use tax due on the document and recording fees paid the escrow services, we recommend simply exempting amounts that are remitted to a county filing office from retail sales tax
and use tax under RCW 82.04 and 82.12 and removing any provision making changes to the B&O tax under chapter 82.04 RCW.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This approach has two key advantages:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo9">It preserves the lower B&O retailing tax rate for all taxable escrow agent services.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo9">It avoids creating a carve-out from the definition of a “retail sale” for the cost of doing business for a specific industry, which the department has consistently viewed with caution.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If this approach does not meet your needs, it would be helpful to confirm the intent of your proposal with respect to the B&O tax treatment escrow agent services. This will help ensure any fiscal note we produce accurately estimate the
impact of the proposed tax changes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Intent section of the proposal</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The department has consistently taken the position that these document and recording fees are taxable under current law and the department’s position has not changed.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, we take issue with the mischaracterization in the intent section of the proposed legislation that the department has had a change of position that would trigger a rulemaking process. We also have concerns that this proposal purports
to “clarify” rather than change the tax treatment of document and recording fees. Thus, we respectfully request that the intent section be removed from the bill.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope you find this helpful. We are happy to answer any questions you may have or review any future drafts.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Have a great weekend!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">Kate Armstrong</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#353535">Assistant Legislative Liaison | Executive Division</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#353535">Washington State Department of Revenue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#353535">6400 Linderson Way SW, Tumwater, WA 98501</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#353535">o: (360) 534-1537</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#353535">c: (360) 584-3742</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#467886"><a href="mailto:KateA@dor.wa.gov"><span style="color:#467886">KateA@dor.wa.gov</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aptos Narrow",sans-serif;color:#353535">
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